Brian and Judson hookup with James Nguyen and AC Gottlieb and talk sex between friends, couples therapy, racism in the queer community and designing for Chappell Roan

Brian and Judson are joined by partners in life and work, James Nguyen and AC Gottlieb, costume designers currently represented on stage by Chappell Roan in her Visions of Damsels and Other Dangerous Things tour and by Messy White Gays off-Broadway. James and AC chat with the hosts about the origin of their relationship and their evolution to openness, making and maintaining queer friendships–including navigating boundaries around sex with friends, entering into couples therapy, and their past dalliances with throuple-dom. The pair also discuss finding independence within a codependent relationship, how much we let dating apps inform our feelings about ourselves, the pursuit of their professional dreams, and how they came to design for Chappell Roan.